Four years ago, engineer Paul Murphy worked outdoors at 14,000 feet above sea level in the Peruvian Andes, building a 300-kilometer slurry pipeline for the world's second-largest copper mine. He directed local contractors in broken Spanish. He got sunburned and windburned. Some days he never sat down. Today, the treasury associate sits on the fifth floor of a San Francisco office building, running Bechtel Group's substantial investment portfolio under Treasurer Kevin Leader. Some days he doesn't get to leave his desk.
Hundreds of miles north, Seth Eisner works away as director of capital markets for Microsoft Corp., running the equity and strategic investment sub-portfolios of the company's $40 billion investment portfolio. It is a far cry from his days, only six years ago, as a New England Culinary Institute-trained chef, preparing mostly classic French dishes at a series of award-winning restaurants in New England and Washington State.
Exotic resumes for treasury? Sure. Also evidence that resourceful treasurers and CFOs, under pressure from a tight labor market, fast-changing technology and inventive financial instruments, are thinking outside the box and bringing in people with sometimes unusual backgrounds to build powerful treasury teams that rely
Recommended For You
as much on personal initiative as any particular skill set to make the operation click. "We still shop for functional expertise," notes George Zinn, Microsoft corporate vice president and treasurer, "but some of our best hires have been people we picked for the horsepower they bring, not their treasury training."
High horsepower engines driving Microsoft's treasury, in addition to Eisner, include Anita Prasad, head of the corporate finance team. Although she served previously as treasurer at LSI Logic, her background as a Ph.D. and former professor of corporate finance at the University of Wisconsin is far more academic than most treasury pros. "Now, there's a ton of horsepower," Zinn observes. He also points to Doug Hoch, a chemistry Ph.D. whose doctoral work focused on statistical modeling. Today, he applies that academic sophistication to Microsoft's financial risk management. "I did simulations in chemistry. I do simulations in risk management," Hoch notes.
Hoch began thinking of a career in finance even before he met Zinn. As he was working on his Ph.D. in theoretical chemistry at the University of Wisconsin in 1996, he began reading about all the physics Ph.Ds working on Wall Street, and he started sitting in on finance classes. He then enrolled in an MBA program at the University of Washington and got hired as a temp by Microsoft when Zinn needed help evaluating a risk management vendor. Zinn recognized the horsepower and offered Hoch a permanent position.
Admittedly, with a treasury staff of 134, Zinn has a bit more discretion in hiring than most. But an increasing number of treasurers will tell you that even with a smaller staff the key to expanding treasury's horizons is with employees that don't have tunnel vision about what the job involves and can understand operational as well as financial priorities. But no matter what size the treasury, says treasury consultant Craig A. Jeffery, head of Atlanta-based Strategic Treasurer LLC, the goal is always "to make one plus one plus one equal five."
Bechtel's Murphy is a good example of the emerging treasury pro. As a civil engineer hired to design and build pipelines, he's been on the ground, gaining hands-on experience with what Bechtel does to earn the money he now invests. A year before he scaled the Andes he was doing design work on location for a high-profile gas-field project Shell Oil was developing, also in Peru. He also spent time at job sites on oil and gas pipeline projects in North Africa.
Now, he's seeing the financial side of those same projects and getting a big-picture view of how money flows across the whole company. But having had his hands in the dirt in actual Bechtel construction projects is a real benefit, according to Murphy. "That engineering experience helps me to understand the capital-intensive nature of certain projects and to know whether the cash burn we see is appropriate or not.
"It helps that I speak the language," he adds. "When we're talking to a business unit about an 'Egypt LNG project,' I know 'LNG' is liquefied natural gas and how expensive it is to liquefy natural gas. My background would be especially useful for project-specific financing like letters of credit, although that's not part of my current duties.
"This company makes its money building infrastructure on location," Murphy concludes. "Seeing the big picture and the supporting financing operation, as well as the engineering and construction process, gives me understanding of both sides of what Bechtel has to do well to succeed."
Leader spotted Murphy when they both worked on the same floor of Bechtel's headquarters building. Murphy, who was working on an MBA at the University of California at Berkeley, was part of a front-end engineering design group that did consulting with oil companies looking to develop projects. They talked and then collaborated on projects. Finally, Leader recruited Murphy to join his treasury team. That move, Leader says, "paid off phenomenally well."
THE TALENT SEARCH
Andrew Logsdon at Alcoa Inc. is another choice from outside the typical treasury feedstock. Trained as a mechanical engineer, Logsdon worked for an electric utility company, negotiating complex contracts for power with corporate customers like Alcoa. Seven years ago, he jumped across the table to join the aluminum producer and, for the last several years, has worked in its New York-based treasury as head of its energy risk management program, which last year garnered one of Treasury & Risk Management's Alexander Hamilton Awards. Recently, he moved on to become controller and finance director of Alcoa's new global foil business unit.
His work with treasury took him far afield from energy-related work at times. He has been involved in the negotiation and placement of Alcoa's revolving credit, has worked on project finance and has helped administer FAS 133 and SOX compliance. He has handled Alcoa's book of corporate guarantees and has been involved in financing and structuring Alcoa's investments in China.
Throughout, Logsdon says he fell back on his engineering discipline. "Success lies in breaking complex issues down into manageable pieces and then managing those pieces without losing track of how they have to fit together," he explains.
Harvey Blake at Prudential Financial Inc. is another success story of a non-treasury import. Three years ago, Treasurer Chuck Chaplin plucked Blake from the individual life insurance unit, where he was deeply involved in operations. "He is a very bright guy," Chaplin notes. "He came here with no real treasury experience but learned corporate finance within a year and really applied what he learned to the business unit he came from. He was very influential in putting together our structured reinsurance transactions. It was tremendously useful to have someone who really knew treasury and really knew the individual insurance business and could bring together the actuarial side and the finance side. We've gained a lot from that kind of cross-pollination."
Now, Blake has left treasury to become vice president of financial risk management in Prudential's annuity business, but he's still paying dividends for Chaplin. "He gives treasury an entr? into the annuities business and makes it easier for the treasury person assigned to annuities to do her job," Chaplin points out.
In his 10-year tenure as treasurer at Prudential, Chaplin can recall hiring only two managers who came out of treasury positions at other companies. His strategy is to import talent from the business units and export talent back to the business units, strengthening a cross-discipline network.
The larger the treasury staff, the more opportunity companies have to bring in someone with high horsepower but no treasury training. For leaner departments, the question more often is whether to hire a generalist or a specialist. "Specialists are nice to have, but realistically many of us have to cover a lot of bases with a small staff," reflects James Haddad, vice president-finance for Cadence Design Systems Inc., an electronic design automation and software company based in San Jose, Calif. "And you need flexibility to back up people who are sick or on vacation. I need generalists who know treasury."
SPECIALISTS VERSUS GENERALISTS
Research by treasury consultants Treasury Strategies Inc. indicates that companies with $5 billion and up in revenues usually boast between 18 and 39 staffers in treasury. "With [that number], you can take a team approach," notes Susan Skerritt, a partner in Treasury Strategies' New York office. With the three to eight people more typical at midsize companies, you are almost forced to take a staff approach, she says.
That said, a dynamic technology and finance environment is driving an increasing number of treasurers toward specialists. Particularly in areas such as risk management and the need for accounting skills in working capital management, it's hard not to look for developed expertise. In half the companies Treasury Strategies has surveyed, insurance is now part of treasury's enterprise risk management responsibility, and insurance is an industry with its own language, providers and metrics. "You really need an insurance specialist if you're going to handle insurance," Skerritt says.
Unless the position is treasurer, companies are almost always looking for "more expertise in one area than others," reports headhunter Ellen Williams, senior client partner at executive search firm Korn/Ferry International. "They're looking for a director of capital markets, for example, with a focus on raising capital or the deal side," she notes. "A search for a treasury generalist is becoming a lot less common."
And even at Cadence, Haddad concedes the need for specialized knowledge in technology and FX hedging, which generalists can't supply. Haddad's solution has been to include two specialists among his eight-person treasury team.
Hire a specialist and you may get someone who can quickly bring you best practices in an area where they are urgently needed, notes Daniel Rosenstein, managing director and head of U.S. cash management sales for Deutsche Bank's global transaction banking unit. "It may also reduce your need to bring in expensive consultants," he adds. The downside? Specialists provide a treasury less flexibility to cope with workload peaks and valleys, Rosenstein observes, and there is also the potential for lower morale (and higher turnover) among specialists, who may feel limits for career advancement.
Rosenstein has seen treasuries recruit people with systems skills or project management skills or something as specific as a strong grounding in SAP. But these experts are then trained to handle additional tasks, he explains. It's fairly common, he notes, for expanding companies to shop for global expertise and maybe hire a foreign exchange specialist and then move him or her into a broader role once the FX operation gets established. In addition, many companies are wedded to the idea of rotation, and people who don't come in as generalists generally become one, if they're successful specialists.
The emphasis on automation and the growth of ERP systems and electronic payments has put enough of a premium on technologists that some treasuries are hiring their own, rather than relying on IT, reports Treasury Strategies' Skerritt. "Some large treasuries are hiring people with no treasury experience but strong skills in implementing technology and then teaching them about treasury," she says.
Large treasuries tend to add specialists to handle new, sophisticated activities that are critical for that company–for example, issuing asset-backed securities, Skerritt explains. But as those activities become familiar, they are added to the general knowledge of treasury and no longer require specialists, she notes. "We have a small group in New York that specializes in working with the Street, the debt markets and the ratings agencies," notes Judith Schrecker, former Alcoa treasurer for North America and now CFO of its sheet and plate division. "But most people in treasury focus on helping the business units."
When you put together the optimal treasury, you need a good team–a group that is balanced, complementary and works well together, Strategic Treasurer's Jeffery says. "You don't just hire a bunch of smart people. You need people on the team who have great analytical skills, others with interpersonal skills and still others with general business skills. And you need people who work well together."
He could be talking about Diebold Inc. If specialists and high-achievers suggest temperamental prima donnas, Bob Warren wants no part of them. The vice president and treasurer of Diebold Inc. coaches a winning treasury team with a philosophy of cooperation and teamwork, not individual brilliance. "Good people working together well can deliver more value than the same number of outstanding individuals," Warren preaches. "If we don't all play on the same team, we might as well work for different companies."
The goal must, of course, be scoring points for shareholders, not building a treasury empire. "We'll give up an activity if another group can do it better for the overall value of the corporation. We've done that. Or we'll take on work we don't especially want if that's best for the company. What we do in treasury affects so many other aspects of the company, that decisions can't be based on one person's knowledge and experience. It takes communication. You get better solutions from a team than you can get from any individual."
Warren's reports include few specialists. "It would take time to train a generalist in currency risk management, so it makes more sense to hire someone with relevant experience," he concedes. "And the guy who runs insurance has to know insurance. But we still make sure that these specialists are team players and clear thinkers."
Warren's philosophy has worked well for Diebold's treasury–and Diebold, and top executives have rewarded treasury for its record of good management by putting more on its plate. Among its new responsibilities are A/P; customer leasing (including used equipment); order-to-cash (order entry, contract administration, credit and collections and A/R) and, most recently, real estate. "People look to treasury to do a good job, and we keep proving that we can," Warren boasts.
Warren, who started as Diebold's first-ever treasury employee 24 years ago, now has 140 people reporting to him–quite an accomplishment at a nonfinancial company with only $2.5 billion in annual revenues. But while his staff has grown, the hierarchy is still lean–one assistant treasurer and two directors under Warren for core treasury. While Diebold does not seek out exotic hires, its treasury is not run by treasury lifers either. Assistant Treasurer Tim McDannold came with no treasury experience from a Big Four accounting firm, and neither of the two directors, Chris Bast and Steve Wolgamott, started in treasury.
The bottom line for treasurers must be a solid foundation on which to build, given the rapid expansion in what is considered treasury responsibility. When a department gets handed a new function, the treasury team has to be ready.
© 2025 ALM Global, LLC, All Rights Reserved. Request academic re-use from www.copyright.com. All other uses, submit a request to [email protected]. For more information visit Asset & Logo Licensing.